PILGRIMSPLAZA on www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com

This collection is not in its infancy anymore!

NEW august 2013 on the big Santiagoforum:

http://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/the-little-foxhouse-video-plus-christmas-2013-new-year-13-14.19889/
The Little FoxHouse: video plus Christmas 2013/ New Year 13/14

Discussion in 'Finisterre and Muxia route albergues, pensions and' started by Cita, Aug 14, 2013.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-9XwgGKj7d8

home > www.pelgrimspaden.nl

update 27-1-10 Enigma view count 7.000+
last blog http://the-santiago-enigma.blogspot.com/

Pilgrimage is of all people, faiths, sferes and ages
- for hunters, gatherers and smorgasbordians:
Er is geen weg naar de vrede; vrede is de weg - Simon Vinkenoog
Truth is a pathless land - Jiddu Krishnamurti

Quote of last year by my neighbour Erik Jan de Jong:

"The origin may be vague, but the veneration is real"

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Re: Jews On the Camino

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on January 10th, 2013, 9:29 am

David wrote:All is well

Recent posts on this forum:
Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?
The Santiago Enigma – what did YOU see in that mirror?

PILGRIMSPLAZA: Posts: 273; Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

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Re: Jews On the Camino

by David on January 10th, 2013, 12:37 am

Well, Jesus (Yeshua) and James (Yacob) were both Jews and because one cannot think outside of one's enculturation they would both have thought as Jews of that period thought ... Yeshua himself is quoted as saying (of the Mosaic Law - the Scriptural Law of the Jews, of which he was a loyal and Rabinnic one)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished”

Show me a Jew who can disagree with such a teaching ... until Paul of course

(the disagreement of course, should we be pedantic, was/is whether he was/is the fulfillment of that Law)

All is well

Buen Camino

~ every day is a journey and the journey itself is home ~
http://www.pilgrimsupplies.org
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/pilgrimsupplies
http://www.donoharm.co.uk

David: 160 or more posts; Posts: 296; Joined: January 28th, 2006, 4:53 pm; Location: Weston-Super-Mare, England

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Re: Jews On the Camino

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on January 10th, 2013, 12:19 am

David wrote: Yeshua was still a Rabbi with Jewish teachings

Were He and Jacobus converted the same way? How would Jewish Camino pilgrims look at it?

Recent posts on this forum:
Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?
The Santiago Enigma – what did YOU see in that mirror?

PILGRIMSPLAZA: Posts: 272; Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

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... so sad ...

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on January 8th, 2013, 1:32 pm

Priscillian wrote:... no longer wish to add my voice...

So many still missing interesting questions & answers.
Thank you for the joy in our early posting years here!

May God hold you in the palm of his hand....
And may the hand of a friend always be near.

Hope to meet you on my sacred mountain one day!
Geerτ

ATTACHMENTS

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Last edited by PILGRIMSPLAZA on January 14th, 2013, 12:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Recent posts on this forum:
Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?
The Santiago Enigma – what did YOU see in that mirror?

PILGRIMSPLAZA: Posts: 271; Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

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May the Road Rise With You...

by Priscillian on January 4th, 2013, 11:42 am

Fare thee well, from Priscillian.
In light of recent issues over Christmas in which I have felt that the anonymity of private messages on this Forum has been compromised I have decided that I no longer wish to add my voice.
In the 5 years I have been an active member I have posted over 600 times on all things from mental health issues to blisters. I have also mentioned my views on the historicity of the St James' myth - which I have been researching and writing on for almost ten years (see below) - which I am sure are not welcome in certain quarters. I have also attempted to let people know that they are welcome to come and share my little house near Muxia with me after their Camino is done. This has not been welcomed either.
Thank you to all of you who have added to my posts. I have made many, many friends here. We have had some wonderful discussions on topics banal and polemical. I shall miss that.
So, I shall be switching my messages of help and information back to my blog and to my Facebook sites. Please do feel free to join me there.
May the road indeed (and thought) rise with you.
Buen Camino, TODOS....
Tracy Saunders

Are you ready to go home now?The Little Fox welcomes you after your Camino is done.Nr Muxia.Donativo.
Pilgrimage to Heresy and St James' Rooster (The Camino Chronicles)
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com http://www.stjamesrooster.com

Priscillian: 160 or more posts; Posts: 623; Joined: February 2nd, 2008, 1:39 pm; Location: Carantona, Galicia

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Re: May the Road Rise With You...

by Priscillian on January 4th, 2013, 11:51 am

PS: Open message to Ivar: You will find a Thank You to you and this Forum (and two other members) in the "acknowledgement" pages of my latest book.

Priscillian: 160 or more posts; Posts: 623; Joined: February 2nd, 2008, 1:39 pm; Location: Carantona, Galicia

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Re: The Camino Is Not For Everyone

by ivar on December 27th, 2012, 7:11 pm

Some posts in this thread has been deleted since they were way off topic.

Saludos,
Ivar

Santiago de Compostela - Camino De Santiago on twitter - Ivar on twitter

ivar Moderator: Posts: 2658; Joined: October 12th, 2004, 9:47 am; Location: Santiago de Compostela

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unbiased scientific research program

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 27th, 2012, 2:43 pm

I think this "subject under discussion" has been well and truly "derailed".

It sure has. And didn't we all notice how the tone of voice on this forum has hardened this year? Perhaps because all the old arguments have been discussed enough? All the margins of the old discussions have been amply explored? But, there is more to the old camino than meets the eye, so let's try a new approach, like the "unbiased scientific research program" as suggested in

Go west, young man! August 6th, 2009, 12:03 am miscellaneous-topics/topic6631.html#p38964

... is there something in the hard drive of us humans which makes us search in this way?

Of course there is; the question is what condition? Louis Charpentier told us. Europeans feel the need to go west where the sun sets and they took that urge with them to the States.

Let's try to get un unbiased scientific research program started. There must be thousands of old and new pilgrim students who would like to earn a degree in this field. A questionnaire in a tourist or pilgrim's office could get some relevant decision makers in the good mood.

Now, wouldn't that be a nice and fresh beginning of the New Year?
Best Wishes!

Recent posts on this forum:
Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?
The Santiago Enigma – what did YOU see in that mirror?

PILGRIMSPLAZA: Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

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View new posts

The Camino Is Not For Everyone by Rebekah Scott on December 13th, 2012, 10:45 pm in Camino Frances – 70 – 3585 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 27th, 2012, 2:43 pm

View active topics

The Camino Is Not For Everyone by Rebekah Scott on December 13th, 2012, 10:45 pm in Camino Frances – 70 – 3585 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 27th, 2012, 2:43 pm

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Re: Alle Menschen... New post

by Abbeydore on December 24th, 2012, 1:09 am

PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=GBaHPND2QJg&feature=youtu.be
We're all pilgrims to our final destinations.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all!

This is a wonderful video

(& turn your sound up as loud as possible)
Merry Christmas
David

Abbeydore Posts: 712: Joined: October 11th, 2011, 7:08 pm; Location: Hereford England

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Alle Menschen...

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 23rd, 2012, 2:11 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=GB ... e=youtu.be
We're all pilgrims to our final destinations.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to all!
http://pilgrimsplaza.blogspot.nl

Recent posts on this forum:
Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?
The Santiago Enigma – what did YOU see in that mirror?

PILGRIMSPLAZA Posts: 270: Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

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Re: Jews On the Camino

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 15th, 2012, 12:22 pm

David wrote: the problem is?|

India?

Recent posts on this forum:
Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?
The Santiago Enigma – what did YOU see in that mirror?

PILGRIMSPLAZA: Posts: 267; Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

where, when and why did it start?

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 14th, 2012, 11:40 am

scruffy1 wrote: There is entirely too much agreement on this subject

Hi Scruffy,

From my early days on this forum I wondered where the jewish pilgrims were, regarding the origin of the tradition. Now their number is growing and I wonder why; what triggered it?

How do you relate to Jacobus and the myths around him?

My home town has a direct link to SdC and Spain sharing our patron, like more European capital cities do. Since 1572 my national anthem says: "I have always honoured the King of Spain", which I haven't sung since I understood what it means.

On holiday in IsraÃ«l I learned that many holy places and sacred stories have several locations. Almost all but one, the well at Nazareth, because there was no other well for miles around, so we know where Mary went for water in her early years. Jerusalem was destroyed several times, etc., etc...

The big question is: where, when and why did it start?

Alfred Watkins [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Watkins ] showed us ley lines in Britain, Louis Charpentier [ http://www.librarything.com/author/charpentierlouis - http://www.librarything.com/work/5966994 ] did the same in France and highlighted les Jacques et le mystÃ¨re de compostelle. Estella no doubt refers to The Milky Way....

Georgiana Goddard King writes in The Way of Saint James [ http://archive.org/details/wayofsaintjames03kinguoft ] (Volume III, p488) that S. James is also 'psychopompous, patron of wayfarers and a chtonian power'.*

The end of our then known Western world was not in Galicia but in Portugal [or was that Galicia at the time?] and there is a Finisterre in Brittany [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finist%C3%A8re ] France too, like more Land's Ends elsewhere.

My first Camino pilgrim friends said: "We don't care if it's true; we make it true by walking."

Best,
GeerÏ„
The Santiago Enigma
What did you see in that mirror?

miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html
miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic15440.html

Please PM when my questions are too personnal.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopompos : escort newly-deceased souls to the afterlife
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthonian_planet : Chthonia means "of the Earth" in Greek

Recent posts on this forum:
Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?
The Santiago Enigma â€“ what did YOU see in that mirror?

PILGRIMSPLAZA
Posts: 266: Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

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http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html#p108071

Facial similarities in the Gloria created on purpose?

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on October 7th, 2012, 12:58 pm

Following miscellaneous-topics/topic15488.html#p107834 and http://calenda.org/220804 , hoping that the experts can give us some answers, I forwarded this question to the congress:

“Have the facial similarities of the 3 protagonists in the Gloria been created on purpose?”

Would anyone visiting the colloquium please report here any reactions?

Thank you!
Geerτ

Truth is a pathless land - Jiddu Krishnamurti - More on the
history of Saint James > http://king-early-days.blogspot.com and on
The Santiago Enigma > http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html

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The Santiago Enigma – what did YOU see in that mirror?

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on September 28th, 2012, 9:26 pm

Today the view count passed 12.000 and still nobody reported seeing the same or something like it in the faces of the main statues in the Pórtico de la Gloria.

"The message is about what this Pórtico has to tell you. The discussion is also about the question whether this message is given intentionally by the makers of the Gloria. In my view that is very much the case. Of course all pilgrims have their own view. Mine has a lot to do with the twin aspect in mythology that Ms King writes about. To me it works like a mirror." *

In that mirror I saw myself. It gave me some answers about what I was doing there and what Santiago did to me.

The message is so clear that the artist(s) and the bishop(s) múst have agreed on it.
The beards triggered me…

Anyone?
Geerτ

http://the-santiago-enigma-clues.blogspot.nl
search.php?keywords=mortal+twin&t=3794&sf=msgonly
* miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html?hilit=mirror#p21219

PILGRIMSPLAZA


The Santiago Enigma by PILGRIMSPLAZA on March 21st, 2008, 6:00 pm in Miscellaneous about Santiago - 58 - 10185 - 11-12-11 22:15 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 11th, 2011, 5:48 pm

Santiago Enigma - Pórtico - facial similarities- message

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 10th, 2011, 11:50 am

PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote: [...] So I'll leave you and all the other veteran and new pilgrims their chances to experience this wonderful event I had in the early eighties. I promised my friends here to throw a beach party [picture above] when the count passes 10.000 and still nobody has reacted. That'll be the day!

Yesterday the count did pass 10.000 and nobody has confirmed the message. In July the pavillion were I spent so many happy hours watching the waves burnt down [picture below], but I was told it will rise from its ashes like a Phoenix next season. I'm resting my case now... Please come over one beautiful morning for a toast and a nice meal on the beach. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year all!

Geerτ - http://pilgrimsplaza-pilgrimage-to-santiago.blogspot.com

: next year it will rise like a Phoenix [it has; see below]; 2011 juli 040klein.jpg (35.95 KB) Not viewed yet

Re: The Santiago Enigma by Rebekah Scott on December 10th, 2011, 8:36 pm

How philosphical. How downright epic!

Some of us don´t indulge in enigmas and puzzles, historic secrets and arcane conspiracies. Personally, I find them exclusive and tedious and ultimately silly.

To me, the portico is exactly what it is: breathtaking to some, just another church sculpture to others, a fascinating mystery to the few. Something for everyone.

To me it is what beauty is. That, and crude stone cruceiros and "almas" along the Way. Every time I see them again, they move me to tears, and they speak to my heart -- a place where there is no math or sacred geometry.

http://www.moratinoslife.blogspot.com

Rebekah Scott Posts: 1229 Joined: September 15th, 2005, 2:11 am Location: Moratinos, Palencia Spain

The Santiago Enigma by PILGRIMSPLAZA on March 21st, 2008, 6:00 pm in Miscellaneous about Santiago - 54 - 10024 - by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 10th, 2011, 11:50 am

Re: The Santiago Enigma by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 10th, 2011, 9:45 pm

Rebekah Scott wrote: To me, the portico is exactly what it is: breathtaking to some, just another church sculpture to others, a fascinating mystery to the few. Something for everyone.

Thank you for your intriguing reaction, Rebekah! But, what are you trying to say actually? I do share some of the feelings you are pointing at. It was a once in a lifetime event and it changed my view at art. The beauty was its simplicity; anyone can see it in an instance. I do wish we could have a good chat at the beach next year! Please PM me when we're getting off topic.

Truth is a pathless land - Jiddu Krishnamurti -- More on the
history of Saint James > http://king-early-days.blogspot.com and on
The Santiago Enigma > http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html

PILGRIMSPLAZAPosts: 238 Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am Location: the Netherlands The Hague

Re: The Santiago Enigma

by Millie Mochila on December 11th, 2011, 3:17 pm

Gareth Thomas wrote:

PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote: I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.

“Oh, Geert: I hope you're not going to make it too easy. Can a spiritual enigma be reduced to the level of a breakfast-time crossword puzzle? If it can be so reduced then it will not be worth seeking out, surely?
On the other hand there are no hidden mysteries, but only one unhidden mystery: God loves us.
And that is all. The lovers of mysteries always find that one, unhidden, astonishing mystery, very hard to accept. But it is all.
Gareth”

It is true that if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered. Many people cannot face that. God loves us? Tell that to the victims of Belsen and Sobibor.

Let's please stick to the topic here...

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 11th, 2011, 5:48 pm

Millie Mochila wrote:[...] if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered [...]

Maybe, but The Santiago Enigma contains a serious question on reading a stone bible and interpreting an iconographic programm. This is not about mysteries or illusions but about seeing what you are looking at. Anyone? [Please PM me on the other also serious matters if you like.]

Truth is a pathless land - Jiddu Krishnamurti - More on the
history of Saint James > http://king-early-days.blogspot.com and on
The Santiago Enigma > http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html

PILGRIMSPLAZA Posts: 242

Re: The Santiago Enigma

by TerryB on December 12th, 2011, 6:55 pm

Millie Mochila wrote: It is true that if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered. Many people cannot face that.

God loves us? Tell that to the victims of Belsen and Sobibor.

Hi Millie,
Welcome to the 'Forum'! Looking through your posts we know very little about you as yet! You will realise that the Forum members include all shades of belief and unbelief. Walking and talking with others on the camino only shows the great variety of reasons for pilgrims to walk the way, and the entrance to the Cathedral in Santiago affects people in many different ways. However, whether you come as believer, agnostic or atheist it will speak to you if you allow it to do so and there will be few pilgrims who can remain 'po-faced' on arrival.

Geert -

I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.

It sounds from the above quote as though you have the answer!!!??? Are you able to put us out of our misery?

Blessings for Christmas
(which is all about the vulnerability of God and may just
have something to say about Belsen and Sobibor)
Tio Tel

The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored.
http://trainingforpilgrimage.blogspot.com/

TerryB Posts: 282

Re: The Santiago Enigma

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 12th, 2011, 8:03 pm

TerryB wrote: It sounds from the above quote as though you have the answer!!!??? Are you able to put us out of our misery?

Hi Terry,

Thank you for your reaction! If I remember correctly we already PM'd about this back in 2008.
At the time I was also asked the same [I remember the word misery], but others pleaded 'not to make it too easy'.

Anyway, this is not about what the message of the Pórtico means to me but what it is to you. I already gave some clues in posts like http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html?hilit=mirror#p21219.

To make it easier now the question can also put this way: Why are the faces of the main characters so alike in [blank] expressions and beards? I think that was meant to work like a mirror and later realized what that meant to me. Now the question is: What did you see?

isn't it at least remarkable that those 10.000 views [now, only 2 days later already 10.222] didn't result in 1 answer? There's a law on large numbers against it! Apparently the question lives...

See some pics on http://the-santiago-enigma-clues.blogspot.com ; courtesy of Gareth Thomas.

Merry Christmas, all!
Geerτ

PILGRIMSPLAZA Posts: 242

Re: The Santiago Enigma

by TerryB on December 13th, 2011, 5:04 pm

the question can also put this way: Why are the faces of the main characters so alike in [blank] expressions and beards?

Depends on what you call 'so alike'. I see the familiar stylised carving which can be found in so many romanesque churches (and other buildings). I think it is a case of the stone mason (not necessarily Master Mateo - he would only oversee the work as a whole) using a familiar template for his facial expressions. After all, Holman Hunt is reputed to have used his sister as the model for "The Light of the World".

You ask me what I see! I see a joyful fellowship of Christ's followers. Those in the outer circle are busily talking to their neighbours. The wonder and joy on so many faces has been captured by Master Mateo and his disciples. And then we step into the cathedral itself to find . . . . . . .?
On 16th May this year we were in the cathedral for Pilgrims' Mass. Marvellous! The practising of the chants for worship was done with great enthusiasm. During the Service itself the sense of worship and fellowship was awesome!
On the following day we went again and right from the word go it was dead! Hardly any response from the congregation during practise - we felt sorry for the sister as she worked so hard at it.
So . . . . just because you enter through the 'Portico de Gloria' does not mean that everything will be O.K. We may find that there is still work to do.

Your 'question' reminds me of one reputedly set by the examiners at Oxford University.:-
Question - "Why?"
Answer (by one enterprising student) - "Why Not?"

Blessings
Tio Tel

The Tree of Shame became the Tree of Glory, and where life was lost, there life has been restored.
http://trainingforpilgrimage.blogspot.com/

TerryB Posts: 282

Re: The Santiago Enigma

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on December 13th, 2011, 5:34 pm

TerryB wrote: using a familiar template for his facial expressions

Splendid! Now we're getting somewhere. I thought about a template at first and that's what I've been told before, but... somewhere [I'll try to find it back] I read that Mateo selected local characters for the faces of his lesser gods. So, the question remains: why a template for the main protagonists? It wasn't laziness, I'm sure. To me it's very clear (the mirror), but is it to you?

21-5-9: The Santiago Enigma - clues

http://the-santiago-enigma-clues.blogspot.com/

http://the-santiago-enigma-gateway.blogspot.com/

31-7-9: Last post > last tabu?

2-8-9 a great opportunity to get our facts right !

Two main subjects:

- The Way of Saint James by Georgiana Goddard King -

February 8th, 2008, 1:56 pmin Miscellaneous about Santiago

- The Santiago Enigma on March 21st, 2008, 6:00 pm on

http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html

-->

Online reading:
- http://www.archive.org/details/wayofsaintjames01kinguoft -
- http://www.archive.org/details/wayofsaintjames02kinguoft -
- http://www.archive.org/details/wayofsaintjames03kinguoft -

More History of Saint James on http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

Faces in the London Pórtico de la Gloria - All these faces are cut from pictures of the copy in the Victoria & Albert Museum at London of the Pórtico de la Gloria in Saint James's cathedral at Santiago de Compostela in Spain. Courtesy and © (permission given on 22-5-9) of Mr. Gareth Thomas who took these on the eve of his pilgrimage from England through France to Santiago.

The Santiago Enigma

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What do those blank faces in the Pórtico de la Gloria tell Y

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 3rd, 2012, 10:00 pm

Today the view count of The Santiago Enigma passed 11.000 and still nobody confirmed what I saw back in ‘83. *

Beach pavillion De Kwartel that burned last year has risen like a Phoenix from its ashes. **

So let’s have lunch there soon so we can discuss what these facial similarities in the Pórtico de la Gloria mean to YOU. To me it worked like a mirror. ***

I really would enjoy that!
Best!
Geerт

* http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html
** http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html#p80670
*** http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html#p21219

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What do those blank faces in the Pórtico de la Gloria tell Y by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 3rd, 2012, 10:00 pm in Miscellaneous about Santiago: 0 reaction - 2 views 23:07 local time; by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 3rd, 2012, 10:00 pm

What do the blank faces in the Pórtico de la Gloria tell you by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 3rd, 2012, 10:00 pm [title edited 5-4-12 10:00]

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http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/pilgrim-books/topic13226.html
Tierra de Santiago - Land of the Dead

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on March 19th, 2012, 8:57 am

Georgiana King mentiones the Celts only 3 times and says: “To the Romans as to the Celts, the Tierra de Santiago was the Land of the Dead.” So here it is what she says about them, beautifully written as ever on “Celts and Jugo-Slavs” in THE WAY OF SAINT JAMES, Volume III, THE BOURNE - By GEORGIANA GODDARD KING, M. A., Professor of the History of Art, Bryn Mawr College; Member the Hispanic Society of America; in full text in http://www.archive.org/details/wayofsaintjames03kinguoft - [replace the 3 by 2 and 1 for the other Volumes]

[p267] Lancelot crossed the Bridge of Dread, to see Guenevere in the land of the dead. 'The land of the dead played a great rôle in ancient Celtic beliefs, and the information about the Gauls that the writers of [Blessed souls were at the Bridge – 268] antiquity have left, testify no less than the most authentic documents of Irish poetry."
"The Celts [Celts, says Shelley, for Jugo-Slavs] represented the abode of the dead as an island situated in the west which was at the same time the abode of the blessed. There, under a sky always mild, heroes grew not old..."
Guenevere's Maying, which has dropped out of the story of Chrétien, is a Celtic trait and recalls the Slavonian pilgrims, who for May Day, put garlands on their heads.
This provokes on the one hand, a reminiscence of Owain Miles who saw the procession of bishops that came out smelling of incense and "bearing banners and branches of golden palm trees." But it is older than that, for these green branches grew by the gates of Paradise. When to the Wife of Usher's Well her three sons came,

Their hats were of the birk:
It neither grew in syke not ditch
Nor yet in ony sclough;
But at the Gates of Paradise
That birk grew fair eneugh.

[THE BOURNE 269] Scott quotes, as a gloss on these lines, from the Maase Book, the case of a returned ghost, Jewish, who says: "I wear the garland to the end that the wind of the world may not have power over me, for it [Wind o' the World] consists of excellent herbs of Paradise."
If it is, on the other hand, like all Maying, a spell to secure fertility for their far-off fields and gardens, then, like the ceremonies of Candlemas, it seems to offer more than a bare vestige of earlier worship than the Christian of S. James, in the city of the hollow hill.

More: http://pilgrimagetoheresy.blogspot.com/2011/06/who-were-celts.html#comment-form

… or just human?

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on March 14th, 2012, 9:41 am

… the title refers to Religious, Spiritual or...Travel? or... just human? in http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/announcements-your-feedback/topic13015.html#p88092 on this forum.

For those who liked posts on Heavenly and Mortal Twins like this one on http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-topics/topic11158-100.html#p74569 here’s a wonderful new Bryn Mawr Classical Review on http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2012/2012-03-23.html :

Salvatore D’Onofrio, Le Sauvage et son double. Vérité des mythes.
Reviewed by Renée Koch Piettre, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, Paris

Preview
Cet essai d’anthropologie comparée rassemble et réélabore une série de communications (2000-2009), sous l’enseigne du « double » sauvage de l’homme civilisé : le double, rappelle l’auteur (p. 212sq.) est une donnée universelle, mais l’ouvrage se concentre sur la seule production collective des figures de doubles sauvages du héros civilisateur travaillées par la littérature mythique dans les sociétés « chaudes » de l’Occident, des civilisations mésopotamiennes jusqu’à nos jours. Cinq chapitres s’ordonnent successivement autour des couples Enkidu et Gilgamesh, Polyphème et Ulysse, Jean-Baptiste et Jésus, Ysengrin et Renart, Ganelon et Roland. Ils exploitent parfois aussi des sources non littéraires, d’où une vingtaine d’illustrations (iconographie chrétienne et rites observés dans l’Espagne et la Sicile contemporaines). Dans le passage au christianisme, la progression chronologique permet à Salvatore D’Onofrio d’articuler aux figures du « sauvage et son double » les concepts d’« atome de parenté spirituelle »1 et d’« inceste de troisième type »2 exposés dans un ouvrage antérieur.3 [...]

Enjoy!
Geerт

Religious, Spiritual or...Travel? or... just human?

Going home is hard. Why? Perhaps because we feel deep inside that somehow we've reached our final destination? In pre-christian times it was simply our human urge to go west, where the sun sets, where symbolically life ends; to our final destination, behind the horizon, at the costa da morte…- by PILGRIMSPLAZA on March 10th, 2012, 8:39 am

Re: Women Pilgrims in Middle Ages

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 5th, 2012, 6:16 pm

smorrison78704 wrote: I deal with Santiago a bit...

You made my day, Susan, with this new aspect I'd never thought of before:

For many women pilgrims the route to Walsingham was, symbolically and literally, the Milky Way.

from http://www.susansignemorrison.com/_i_women_pilgrims_in_late_medieval_england__private_piety_as_public_performance__64769.htm

Thinking of the many here already discussed twin priciples it made me very curious.
Thank you!
Geerт

PILGRIMSPLAZA: 160 or more posts; Posts: 248; Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am; Location: the Netherlands The Hague

Another question: Which Priscillian, Priscilien or Briciljan -... - search: Priscilien: The forest around the legendary castle of Muntsalvaesche was called Briciljan. Near Montsegur is a small forest called the Priscilien Wood. [ 42°52′20″N 1°50′03″E ] Is this Priscillian or Priscilien or Briciljan ‘our’ Prsicillian? - by PILGRIMSPLAZA on August 20th, 2011, 8:26 am - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics - Topic: are St. James' relics really held in Santiago's cathedra - Views: 1910

coming home - by the way ... - ... discussing secular aspects includes the others in my view. But you are striking now the interesting topic of knowlegde . The feelings you mention visiting Chartres I share at Vézelay. It feels like coming home because I know that Mary Magdalan was there (spiritually) and profe... - on August 7th, 2009, 9:09 am - Forum: Spirituality Topic: The Journey or the Destination??

no plan, no message ? - Is it too much to suggest that Master Mateo (or who-ever) thought of James as 'brother of the Lord' and carved the family likeness Good question! If we could find the iconographic program for the Pórtico de la Gloria -it must be resting in some library in the Vatican, at Cluny or in some monastry a... - on August 6th, 2009, 8:39 am - Forum: Spirituality - Topic: History of Saint James

Go west, young man! - ... is there something in the hard drive of us humans which makes us search in this way? Of course there is; the question is what condition? Louis Charpentier told us. Europeans feel the need to go west where the sun sets and they took that urge with them to the States. Let's try to get un unbias... - on August 6th, 2009, 12:03 am - Forum: Spirituality - Topic: The Journey or the Destination??

Re: The Journey or the Destination?? - which drives us on the search - The quest doesn't drive us from the inside but it draws us from the outside to Fisterra. - on August 4th, 2009, 11:19 pm - Forum: Spirituality

Semantic difference between religion and spirituality ? - the first posting is the History of St James - isn't that errrr...History - Bull's eye, John! It was a matter of choice calling my first post on the new sub forum the History or the Spirituality of Saint James but I feel more secure on historical grounds than in the elysian fields of spirituality. ... - on August 4th, 2009, 10:50 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics - Topic: Sub Forum for Religion - Spirituality

Re: History of Saint James - Thank you again, Brother David, but why do I have this feeling that you already know a short answer... - Regards, on August 4th, 2009, 5:36 pm - Forum: Spirituality

Re: History of Saint James - there is no need for the question in the first place? - That's a very clever one, Terry, and -to be honest- that's exactly what I've been thinking all the time but people kept arguing. Can we all agree on this? And if we do, would then the simple answer be: there is no answer? Or shall we try a littl... - on August 4th, 2009, 4:38 pm - Forum: Spirituality

Re: History of Saint James - newadvent.org and search under St James Thank you very much, Michael! Your link * produced 10 hits so it will take some time to examine them all. They'll be on the list and the quest goes on! Regards, * - http://www.newadvent.org/utility/search.htm?safe=active&cx=000299817191393086628%3Aifmbh... - on August 4th, 2009, 4:18 pm - Forum: Spirituality

Re: History of Saint James - Don't forget that there were three with the name James ( thinks: is this not history? ) - Thank you very much, Brother David! I'll collect all your comments and those of others, which are all very much appreciated, in an attached Word document. After a while we'll try distilling a short and simpe... - on August 4th, 2009, 4:10 pm - Forum: Spirituality

Re: History of Saint James - 'Does it work?' - Yes, this shows it: you got me studying the Bible! Off now to the beach; need 2 reading glasses now for the small army bible print. Till tonight in a PM for detais. Thanks again! on August 4th, 2009, 11:00 am - Forum: Spirituality

Re: History of Saint James - The only 'historical text' that I know is Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, l Corinthians 15 verse 7. From the order given of the appearances by Paul it would seem that James had a 'revelation' all to himself. Tradition says that he 'came to faith' at this point. No other evidence that I know... - on August 4th, 2009, 10:18 am - Forum: Spirituality

History of Saint James - Congratualions all with this innovative developement and thank you, Ivar and your staff, for just doing it! Wonderful! A great day! :idea: I'm searching for the historical sources describing how and when the Jewish Jacobus (was) converted (in his lifetime?) into a Catholic Saint. Could anyone giv... - on August 4th, 2009, 9:19 am - Forum: Spirituality

Re: Sub Forum for Religion - Spirituality - Let's try it! As Sil says: Flame throwers at the door! - Chapeau! - on August 4th, 2009, 9:10 am - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

Some more feedback - ..please give me some feedback on this. :-) May I explain why I voted for a sub forum (or any other cosy little corner for afficionados): Apart from being a professional walker and a pilgrim's paths maker I'm also a very curious journalist and the two mix wonderfully. I like to go 'deep' into inve... - on August 3rd, 2009, 7:27 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics - Topic: Sub Forum for Religion - Spirituality

a great opportunity to get our facts right ! - It could also create a great opportunity for old and new pilgrims getting their facts right! The way these are handled now must be very confusing. At least they are to me! Did Jacobus visit Spain? Did he convert in his lifetime or did he die before he could? @cetera, @cetera... - on August 2nd, 2009, 5:56 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics - Topic: Sub Forum for Religion - Spirituality

Re: Sub Forum for Religion - Spirituality - Amen! - on August 2nd, 2009, 1:13 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

Re: Santiago Enigma > last post > last tabu? - You may be opening a conversation on what is the definition of a Christian, which is an interesting one. Dear Michael, Thank you very much for your warm reaction, but -with all due respect- these aspects are -as I already said above- not my goal. I'm especially interested in the historical aspects ... - on July 31st, 2009, 8:27 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Re: Santiago Enigma > last post > last tabu? by MichaelB10398 on July 31st, 2009, 8:17 pm - Friend, I am not convinced that James and Paul taught different gospels, but rather the record that we have in the Bible demonstrates that they emphasized different doctrines of the same gospel. What united both of them is their faith in Jesus Christ. You may be opening a conversation on what is the definition of a Christian, which is an interesting one. I think the major definitions used today by orthodoxy would certainly be at odds with who was identified as a Christian during the very early history of the gospel of Christ. - Always enjoy your edits, - Continued peace, Michael

Re: Santiago Enigma > last post > last tabu? by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 31st, 2009, 8:27 pm - You may be opening a conversation on what is the definition of a Christian, which is an interesting one. - Dear Michael, Thank you very much for your warm reaction, but -with all due respect- these aspects are -as I already said above- not my goal. I'm especially interested in the historical aspects which I discuss a lot with my friends overhere and we got stuck on the phrase in his lifetime as mentioned above. - I shouldn't encourage others to follow this thread, so I would like to talk to you further via a PM. I am very glad that you took the effort to give us your interesting views though; thanks again! Regards, Geert

flyer on history Saint James in Holy Year 2010 - Hi Ivar, Wonderful! Congratulations on this inspiring job! May I grasp the opportunity to present a suggestion to the Xacobeo organisation to surprize the Santiago pilgrim community with a flyer on the history of Saint James in the next Holy Year 2010? I think it can all be told in a few phrases... - on July 29th, 2009, 6:15 pm - Forum: Announcements / Your feedback Topic: Ivar and Xacobeo 2010

Re: The Santiago Enigma - the last post - My pilgrim friend Jeroen Gooskens mailed (and gave permission to post) this reaction that (knowing him) is very special and precious to me: Dear pilgrim Geert, Congratulations with the elucidation of the secret on Santiago’s Day. Man as twin of God who mirrors Him. Does the quest to the hidden sour... - on July 28th, 2009, 10:56 am - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santiago Enigma - the last post - Hi Tracy, I follow a different 'teacher'! Mine wants my cup to be full and running over - flowing out of my heart into the world! The teaching is St. John's Gospel, chapter 7 verses 38 and 39. The same chapter talks about the brothers of Jesus. James and John ??? Keep an open mind ... - by TerryB - on July 28th, 2009, 8:57 am - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santiago Enigma - the last post - ... libraries. I have attempted to collect a copy of every holy book the world uses and to read them. I believe there is one God and as such ... regardless of reason, all are welcomed. Whether St. James is really in Santiago de Compostela is irrelevant; what is important is how much light ... - by MichaelB10398 on July 28th, 2009, 6:23 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santiago Enigma - the last post - The Nag Hammadi Library is on my bookshelves - I hope the Jewish / Christian Bible is on yours! Walk well and safely Terry[/quote] - Indeed it is, Terry, along with the Koran, The Kabbalah, The Tao te Ching, and an awful lot of material on Buddhism. I believe in hedging my bets!!! by Priscillian on July 28th, 2009, 4:55 pm Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santiago Enigma - the last post - No, I know of a Zen story which goes something like this: A wealthy industrialist went to see a wise sage. The sage poured him tea and began to tell him a little about the Way of Zen but the businessman kept on interrupting with his own - contradictory - ideas. The wise man ... - by Priscillian on July 27th, 2009, 1:05 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post - One last thought, a cup that runs over will never receive more water. We must put ourselves in a position where the Living water always flows. Peace be unto you, Mike Hi Mike, Is that sentence a 'typo'? should it not ... - by TerryB on July 27th, 2009, 9:30 am - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post - Passion, anger may even be a better word, such as yours tends to burn both the criticized and the criticizer. The only way to avoid that is to have an absolute grasp or focus that only excoriates the evil. Michael, you are so right! I had hoped that my ... - by Priscillian on July 26th, 2009, 3:30 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post - Priscillian, I enjoy your writing; there is enough passion and fire in it to light the path of the entire Camino Frances. ... spiritual joy. This is getting a little too preachy, forgive me. One last thought, a cup that runs over will never receive more water. We must put ourselves ... - by MichaelB10398 - on July 25th, 2009, 5:59 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post - ... with me, and that's OK. I can take it. But the rest of you, if what I write here resonates ... We are left with spiritual yearnings that last us the rest of our lives and we don't even ... as away as Korea, even Cuba! There are many enigmas here: we are only allowed to know what is ... - by Priscillian on July 25th, 2009, 3:33 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

+The Santiago Enigma - the last post - ... supports silence!” Today the view count on The Santiago Enigma on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html ... to close it after giving some last clues in The Santiago Enigma ... answered yet: How a jewish apostle converted posthumously ... - by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 21st, 2009, 9:10 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Re: The Santigo Enigma - the last post - Dear Tracy, I'm so glad that you apparently arrived in Santiago in good health (apart from the usual aches and pains that will soon disappear) and high spirits and I'm very honoured to get a reaction so quickly after your arrival! I do hope that we can discuss this post on my sacred Lemeler Mounta... - on July 25th, 2009, 5:53 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Pórtico de la Gloria - iconographic program - Found some nice sites: Pórtico de la Gloria - http://peregrinos.wordpress.com/info/monumentos/portico-de-la-gloria/ Significado Iconografico "Sobre el significado de esta escenificación teológica se ha especulado mucho, aunque en general casi todos los estudiosos coinciden en que se re... - on July 25th, 2009, 11:53 am - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Dutch bishop in Ethiopia - http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/vis/dinamiche/e1_en.htm - OTHER PONTIFICAL ACTS - VATICAN CITY, 23 JUL 2009 (VIS) - The Holy Father appointed: Fr. Theodorus van Ruijven C.M., apostolic prefect of Jimma-Bonga, Ethiopia, and apostolic administrator of Nekemte, Ethiopia, as apostolic vicar of ... - on July 24th, 2009, 10:17 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

The Santigo Enigma - the last post - “Only speak when it supports silence!” Today the view count on The Santiago Enigma on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html passed 6.000 so it's time to explain what happened a quarter of a century ago sitting with my back to the wall opposite... - on July 21st, 2009, 9:10 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Re: Traveling the Camino de Santiago with a service dog - I can only offer sympathy but no help. Sil already said the essence. Animals and pilgrimage don't really match, also because the official health regulations may change quickly in case of outbreaks of diseases. You need a lot of luck too! Try to find as much pilgrims with dogs as you can; here's one ... - on July 21st, 2009, 10:17 am - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

Pórtico de la Gloria gateway into Divine Revelation - The Santiago Enigma - clues 2 - breathtaking culmination of the Camino Following our recent post The Santiago Enigma - clues on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic6469.html we here quote some interpretations of the faces of the Christ in Maj... - on July 20th, 2009, 9:57 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Re: Diabetics - people with diabetics Hi Sil, What a coïncidence! I've just been mailing with a Dutch expert in a current research program on diabetic walkers. I tried to enlist but didn't quite qualify. I've been looking some years now for information for that special category of diabetics type 2 who take tablets... - on July 20th, 2009, 11:55 am - Forum: Medical issues on the pilgrimage

The Santiago Enigma - clues - It's time to give more clues regarding the faces in the Pórtico de la Gloria as discussed in The Santiago Enigma on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html . These clues are already shown in http://the-santiago-enigma-clues.blogspot.com because th... - on July 19th, 2009, 9:53 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

wander through the galleries of the Vatican Apostolic Librar - "SPECIAL OPENING OF THE VATICAN MUSEUMS VATICAN CITY, 16 JUL 2009 (VIS) - On Friday 24 July, the Vatican Museums will remain open to the public in the evening and night. On that day the Museum will remain open from 7 p.m. to 11 p.m., with the last visitors being admitted at 9.30 p.m. Visitors... - on July 16th, 2009, 9:03 pm Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Who was the true Jacob (Jacobus, James) of Santiago - Who was the true Jacob (Jacobus, James) of Santiago deCompostela? * This further exploration of who exactly the historical Jacobus (Jacob, James) of Santiago de Compostela (Sint-Jacob = Sant-Iago = San Tiago) was, fits the broader framework of the discussion of the classic The Way of Saint...- on July 11th, 2009, 10:26 am Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Re: St Paul revisited - So please don't be too persuaded I'm not, Gareth, so don't worry! It's not my cup of tea but still I'm fascinated by the mystics and mechanisms. What struck me was how exciting our times are and how history repeats ifself. Perhaps in some years the pilgrims of that era will wonder how this James/Pe...- on July 7th, 2009, 10:48 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

St Paul revisited - While Wahrheit und Dichting ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichtung_und_Wahrheit ) around the translation of St James to Santiago have faded into the mists of time, we're witnessing now an interesting new chapter as in Rome the tomb of St Paul has been and perhaps will be examined further. Curiously...- on July 4th, 2009, 6:28 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

New link Vézelay / Paris routes: Via Thiérache - The Association Belge des Amis de Saint-Jacques de Compostelle just sent me a copy [84 pages A3 seize] of their new topo-guide du Sentier Via Thiérache connecting Via Mosana / GR654 (from Namur) to Vézelay and GR655 ( Via Gallia Belgica or Hélecine Saint-Quentin) to Paris. [ http://...- on June 29th, 2009, 6:55 pm - Forum: The Vézelay Route

Haarlem - Santiago on Dutch tv - http://www.kromagazine.nl/artikel/1026/Santiago_de_Compostela%3A_Wierook_en_moeie_voeten - Santiago de Compostela: Wierook en moeie voeten - In zes afleveringen reist de Spaanse muzikant Xoel Lopez voor National Geographic Channel van Haarlem naar Santiago de Compostela (ma 29 juni t/m vr, 19.30... - on June 24th, 2009, 6:09 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Some comments on The Santiago Enigma - This post was written in April last year on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ultreya/message/2076 by pilgrim Alan Joyce, who sadly died on Sunday, Dec. 14, 2008, as his widow Margie announced on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Santiagobis/message/23877 . Alan's reaction is still very precious to me for ...- on June 21st, 2009, 10:03 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Understanding architecture technical terms in a second-hand bookshop I found some old Michelin guides (thin oblong pocketbooks) who proved very helpful for understanding architecture and its technical terms like archivolt, flèche, poutre de gloire, voûte en berceau, @cetera in different languages. Enjoy! - on June 20th, 2009, 10:33 am - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

Re: Peregrinos de la Herejía/Pilgrimage to Heresy now in Spanish - I cannot tell you how excited I was to walk into my local Spanish bookshop and see my book - in Spanish and looking very dramatic and mysterious - on the New Releases table. I know those vibes and feel very happy for you! Congratulations! Already 34 hits on Google search today... Am walking the C...- on June 18th, 2009, 10:44 am - Forum: Pilgrim Books

Which Jacob (James)? - Introduction: As promised in Re: Jacob Sheep & Jacob Apple & Jacob Butterfly on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-topics/topic3763.html?hilit=Flinterman#p20935 regarding "A next post on all different Jacobuses by my good pilgrim friend Henk Flinterman&q...- on June 17th, 2009, 1:27 am - Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Not just one of a dozen... - and a few more And a lot more... I'm afraid. I'm collecting sources and the result is flabbergasting... It illustrates that our apostle James was not just one out of a dozen but a very, very, very special one. Why he is so very special has not yet been revealed on this forum as far as I know. ... - on June 4th, 2009, 8:37 pm - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

The building of Santiago Cathedral: straigt lines and angles - The book will be about the end of the 10th century and the beginning of the construction of the present cathedral (…) Can anyone suggest books, material, papers which might help me with my research in these areas? Hi Tracy, we're glad you're back on this forum! Perhaps this may be of any help: Ear... - on May 14th, 2009, 11:01 am - Forum: Miscellaneous Topics Topic: The building of Santiago Cathedral

Pilgrim Elect fostered by Pilgrim Laureate Dear Pilgrim, Every season many new pilgrims ask a great deal of questions, both old and new, and everytime many of the immediate answers are the same. That is good! It reminded me of a kind of wanderer elect that was presented in a Dutch camper's magazine years ago. He was dressed up with al...- on May 11th, 2009, 5:22 pm Forum: Announcements / Your feedback

Re: How to post photos - Reseizing pictures Following Re: How to post photos on March 25th, 2009, 11:08 am on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/frequently-asked-questions/topic3251.html#p32792 I just found by trial and error how to reseize pictures for posting onto this forum. My English is not good enough - on May 8th, 2009, 5:02 pm Forum: Frequently Asked Questions Topic: How to post photos

The Santiago Enigma on March 21st, 2008, 6:00 pm in Miscellaneous about Santiago Replies 53 Views 5501 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on January 9th, 2009, 1:53 pm

Next year in Jerusalem? Following Take the cockle to … Jerusalem!? on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-topics/topic5968.html here's some Vatican stats published today on visnews_en@mlists.vatican.va in Vatican Information Service so you won't feel a stranger in Jerusalem and the surroun... - on May 5th, 2009, 4:48 pm Forum: Miscellaneous Topic Topic: Take the cockle to … Jerusalem!?

More Women Pilgrims in Middle Ages Following Women Pilgrims in Middle Ages on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/pilgrim-books/topic5579.html more on: http://www.umilta.net/egeria.html THE BIBLE AND WOMEN PILGRIMS on Helena and Paula from Rome, Egeria from Spain, Bridget from Ireland, Guthrithyr from Iceland, ... - on May 5th, 2009, 1:32 am Forum: Pilgrim Books

Take the cockle to … Jerusalem!? In More 'medieval' pilgrims in the Netherlands we wrote on this forum To take the cockle is synonymous with Old Dutch 'Palster ende scerpe nemen' meaning to take the staff (bourdon) and scrib (wallet for letters of recommandation) like a well-known English pilgrim is doing on the Camino these ... - on May 4th, 2009, 5:38 pm Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

No cameras on the scaffold in the Pórtico de la Gloria! In Booking guided tours of the Portico of Glory on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-topics/topic5719.html#p33482 we asked: PS: Please send us a close-up picture of the faces of the Christ, both James's, Daniel, Salomé and/or the head of Saint James's Tau staff with th... on April 30th, 2009, 10:33 am Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

Peregrinos por la convivencia My Galician friend remembered this: http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/hemeroteca/2005/08/09/3968674.shtml Un judío, un cristiano y un musulmán caminaron juntos de Jerusalén a Santiago A su llegada al Obradoiro tras recorrer 11.000 kilómetros lanzaron un mensaje de paz «Nos gustaría enseñar a la gente ... on April 21st, 2009, 10:50 pm Forum: Pilgrim Introductions Topic: New, Muslim (sufi) & looking for others & advice

Traslación del Apóstol Santiago. Año 1610 the arrival by sea to Galicia of the body of the Apostle St. James the Greater This picture I just found in Cancionero de los peregrinos de Santiago by Pedro Echevarria Bravo; published by the Centro de Estudios Jacobeos, Madrid 1971 that I bought in 1988 in Libreria González, Rúa del Villar... on April 18th, 2009, 11:38 am Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago Topic: Santiago Cathedral - Early Chapel

Re: Santiago Cathedral - Early Chapel - La Toja Is this the one? My pilgrim friend in Galacia lives nearby and sent the pictures. Outside wall covered with the flat bottoms of coquilles Saint Jacques (vieiras). PS: There is more (names) than meets the eye: More on the Ermita de San Sebastián on http://www.trivago.es/la-toja-102646/catedraligle... on April 15th, 2009, 4:11 pm Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

Georgiana's Gems #9 Iria Flavia (Padr6n) Pilgrimage is of all people, faiths, sferes and ages - for hunters, gatherers and true smorgasbordians Reading The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King (first/last print 1920/2008) for the 3rd time makes a good opportunity to collect the gems she is giving us in such great nu... on April 15th, 2009, 2:19 am Forum: Santiago to Finisterre and Muxia

access scaffolding Pórtico de la Gloria booked till June (?) My understanding of Spanish and babblefish English is poor but it seems that the access of the scaffolding in the Pórtico de la Gloria is allready booked in April and May. See: http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/portada/index.htm > Galicia > Santiago http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/santiago/2009/04/10 ... on April 10th, 2009, 7:17 pm Forum: Miscellaneous Topics Topic: soon accede by scaffold until Porch of the Gloria

Paul, the poet of God sequel Reviews Paul, Paulus or São Paulo by Teixeira de Pascoaes (2) Recently my pilgrim friend Ernestien gave her review on Paul, Paulus or São Paulo (1934) by the Portuguese nobleman, poet and mystic Teixeira de Pascoaes on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/pilgrim-books/top... on April 8th, 2009, 5:38 pm Forum: Pilgrim Books

Booking guided tours of the Portico of Glory Following our post of yesterday: see http://www.fbarrie.org/fundacion/ingles/home.htm : Through its participation as exclusive sponsor in the Santiago de Compostela Cathedral Programme, the Fundación Pedro Barrié de la Maza has set itself the goal of opening up to society as a whole a multi-facete... on April 6th, 2009, 6:28 pm Forum: Miscellaneous Topics Topic: soon accede by scaffold until Porch of the Gloria

soon accede by scaffold until Porch of the Gloria ... Compostela that reserve that limited gratuitous visit will be able to go into in cripta, to ascend by stairs to the ship and soon to accede by a scaffold until the Porch of the Gloria. [4] Four guided visits, with a maximum of ten visitors to the day, will be able to see and almost touch the ... - April 5th, 2009, 7:25 pm Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

access scaffolding Pórtico - no news (?) ... de la Puerta Santa Symbolic goodbye to ceremonial of opening of the Door Santa It quotes the 'groupes of 14 people' getting access to the scaffolding in the Pórtico de la Gloria as mentioned last year, but still no details are given so the news is: no news (?) Two fragments in Babel Fish ... - January 30th, 2009, 10:54 am Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago Topic: Santiago de Compostela - access scaffolding Pórtico

Santiago de Compostela - access scaffolding Pórtico From http://www.elcorreogallego.es in soon accede by scaffold until Porch of the Gloria - April 5th, 2009, 7:25 pm on http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/board/miscellaneous-topics/topic5719.html - [1] Porch of the Gloria, ... - July 21st, 2008, 9:02 pm Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

an instinct implanted in human nature A pilgrimage to the shrine of St James in the 7thC??? Found some inspiring quotes on earlier ages to ponder over in: http://www.archive.org/stream/celticbritainpil00jonerich/celticbritainpil00jonerich_djvu.txt full text http://www.archive.org/details/celticbritainpil00jonerich - flip book "... - April 7th, 2009, 11:26 am Forum: Pilgrim Books Topic: A pilgrimage to the shrine of St James in the 7thC???

Booking guided tours of the Portico of Glory Following our post of yesterday: see http://www.fbarrie.org/fundacion/ingles/home.htm : Through its participation as exclusive sponsor in the Santiago de Compostela Cathedral Programme, the Fundación Pedro Barrié de la Maza has set itself the goal of opening up to society as a whole a multi-facete... - April 6th, 2009, 6:28 pm Forum: Miscellaneous Topics Topic: soon accede by scaffold until Porch of the Glori

soon accede by scaffold until Porch of the Gloria Searching Pórtico de la Gloria on http://www.elcorreogallego.es (> Galicia) gave 2 results: A - El Pórtico de la Gloria podrá visitarse en pequeños grupos - 30.03.2009 EFE. Santiago [1] Pórtico de la Gloria, una de las piezas maestras de la catedral de Santiago de Compostela, podrá visita... - April 5th, 2009, 7:25 pm Forum: Miscellaneous Topics

Hynt St. Ialm - the Welsh connection - Hynt St. Ialm or St. James's Way is mentioned in Chapter XIII.— Santiago de Compostela of Celtic Britain and the Pilgrim movement (1912) by Griffith Hartwell Jones (1859-1944).** Although this book stands apart from The Way of Saint James (1920) by Georgiana Goddard King (1871-19... - April 3rd, 2009, 8:15 pm Forum: Pilgrim Books

Re: Ivar's new adventure ivar wrote: "Open" for business. - Congratulations, Ivar! May all you other dreams come true too! I hope to see you there one day! - March 31st, 2009, 3:35 pm Forum: Discuss news from Santiago

Re: How to post photos ivar wrote: Now alter the size of the picture -Reseizing was a big problem until by trial and error I found a trick: mail the picture to yourself and Outlook does the job. I use Picasa 3 but rightcilcking my old pictures offers many options except reseizing! Anyone?- March 25th, 2009, 11:08 am -Forum: Frequently Asked Questions

Re: List your pilgrim blog URL Here - we want to read your story Hi Suzanne, The other day in that beautiful pilgrim church Op Hodenpijl between The Hague and Rotterdam I met the artist Mrs. Joke Koele ( http://www.ophodenpijl.nl/activiteiten/410/Expositie_Maart/Joke_Koele ) who's exhibiting her spiritual drawings there this month. She explained how her art sho...- March 24th, 2009, 2:46 pm -Forum: Camino Frances blogs/photo albums -

Künig von Vach nach sant Jakob. DAS WALLFAHRTSBVCH DES HERMANNUS KÜNIG VON VACH UND DIE PILGERREISEN DER DEUTSCHEN NACH SANTIAGO DE COMPOSTELA. VON KONRÄD HÄBLER. STRASSBURG, 1899. http://www.archive.org/stream/daswallfahrtsbuc00haebuoft/daswallfahrtsbuc00haebuoft_djvu.txt - full text - http://www.archive.org/stream/daswallfahr...- March 22nd, 2009, 12:58 am -Forum: Pilgrim Books -

Margery she had loads of children 14, I remember to've read. She passed through Holland twice (ports of Zierikzee and Middelburg). To me she's almost as enchanting as Georgiana! It takes some time to get used to her language but it helped me a lot reading aloud. In those days English and Dutch were quite ... - March 17th, 2009, 12:45 pm Forum: Pilgrim Books Topic: Women Pilgrims in Middle Ages

The Book of Margery Kempe (1430) A great pilgrim! http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margery_Kempe http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/teams/kemp1frm.htm The Book of Margery Kempe, Book I, Part I , with footnotes Edited by Lynn Staley - Originally Published in The Book of Margery Kempe Kalamazoo, Michigan: Medieval Institute Publi... - March 17th, 2009, 12:45 am Forum: Pilgrim Books Topic: Women Pilgrims in Middle Ages

Erasmus in Praise of Folly Just found Erasmus on Internet Archive : http://www.archive.org/index.php > search > Erasmus : http://www.archive.org/details/erasmusinpraiseo00erasiala - Erasmus in praise of folly : with portrait, life of Erasmus, and his Epistle to Sir Thomas More ; illustrated with many curious en... - March 14th, 2009, 1:55 pm Forum: Pilgrim Books

Re: Amsterdam to St jean pied de port via Pau , Paulus wrote: St. Jacobs Fietsroute 1, 2 and 3 - Clemens Sweerman just won the Cycle Holiday Trofee on the yearly Amsterdam Cycling and Walking Fair. Also on behalf of many thankful Santiago pilgrims: Congratulations, Clemens! - March 10th, 2009, 1:42 am Forum: Traveling to/from the camino

Reviews Paul, Paulus or São Paulo by Teixeira de Pascoaes (1 Reviews Paul, Paulus or São Paulo by Teixeira de Pascoaes (1) Here my pilgrim friend Ernestien gives a first review of Paul or São Paulo (1934) by the Portuguese nobleman Teixeira de Pascoaes (Joaquim Pereira Teixeira de Vasconcelos). In my own copy in an old and yellow pap... - March 7th, 2009, 1:14 am Forum: Pilgrim Books

Georgiana's Gems #8 more King books online Pilgrimage is of all people, faiths, sferes and ages - for hunters, gatherers and true smorgasbordians Reading The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King (1920/2008) for the 3rd time makes a good opportunity to collect the gems she is giving us in such great numbers. The firs... - February 28th, 2009, 3:08 pm Forum: Pilgrim Books

scaffolding Pórtico now accessible ... Door Santa It quotes the 'groupes of 14 people' getting access to the scaffolding in the Pórtico de la Gloria as mentioned last year, but still no details are given so the news is: ...January 30th, 2009, 10:54 am Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago Topic: Santiago de Compostela - access scaffolding Pórtico

access scaffolding Pórtico - no news (?) - it is still very unclear regarding dates and possibilities. Peter Robins mentioned an article in El Corrego Gallego: http://www.elcorreogallego.es/ - Martes 27.01.2009 - http://www.elcorreogallego.es/santiago/ecg-h/adios-simbolico-ceremonial-apertura-puerta-santa/idEdicion-2009-01-27/idNoticia-3890 ... - January 30th, 2009, 10:54 am Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago Topic: Santiago de Compostela - access scaffolding Pórtico

Re: The Santiago Enigma the mirror image…which is reality Dear Arn, Thank you very much for sharing your feelings with us in this nicely long and interesting reaction! Perfectly shaped for an introduction in The Book , I would say. It took me a while to read the also nicely long Musicae Sacrae and I saw that yo... - January 9th, 2009, 1:53 pm Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago Topic: The Santiago Enigma

Re: The Santiago Enigma haven't I been saying that over the last week? Thank you very much for your reaction, Arn, but I must confess that I missed it. Do you refer to Re: So why do you do it...? by Arn on January 2nd, 2009, 12:03 am or Re: Class of 2009 by Arn on December 30th, 2008, 11:21 pm or perhaps also other ... - January 7th, 2009, 11:06 am Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago

the answer is in people's hearts and minds Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..." "Jac.. - January 6th, 2009, 11:50 pm Forum: Miscellaneous about SantiagoTopic: The Santiago Enigma

Re: Is Life Imitating Art part of The Santiago Enigma? Of course and you can see in the Pórtico that art mirrors life! - January 6th, 2009, 10:28 pm Forum: Miscellaneous about Santiago Topic: The Santiago Enigma

The Santiago Enigma on March 21st, 2008, 6:00 pm in Miscellaneous about Santiago - January 6th, 2009, 11:50 pm

From Santiago to St James by lckgj on December 30th, 2008, 3:24 pm in Miscellaneous about Santiago 10 Reactions 10 Views 302 by Peter Robins - January 6th, 2009, 7:04 pm

Re: Scallop shell?

by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 24th, 2012, 10:45 am

migolito wrote: Scallop Shell

This new question brought back an old one in miscellaneous-topics/topic5968.html?hilit=scallop#p34916 :

Did anyone notice any pilgrims displaying cockle shells on their hats lately in the Holy Land?

For a nice picture of the shell with Madonna in Ermita Toja see: http://www.pilgrimage-to-santiago.com/b ... tml#p33960

More on the history of Saint James > http://king-early-days.blogspot.com and on The Santiago Enigma > http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html -
Truth is a pathless land - Jiddu Krishnamurti

PILGRIMSPLAZAPosts: 249 -Joined: February 7th, 2008, 10:44 am

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http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2010/2010-05-24.html - Bryn Mawr Classical Review 2010.05.24 - Benjamin H. Dunning, Aliens and Sojourners: Self as Other in Early Christianity.
Divinations: Rereading Late Ancient Religion.
Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 2009. Pp. 186. ISBN 9780812241563. $49.95. -
Reviewed by Yii-Jan Lin, Yale University

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For the first time on the Santiago-forum I deleted a post; it concerns: Pagan takeover
Pagan takeover...? : - http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/miscellaneous-topics/topic19101.html - page 2 –

Re: Pagan takeover...? by PILGRIMSPLAZA on June 30th, 2013, 10:35 pm

tony1951 wrote: our understanding of how this universe we occupy operates

A quote in Wikipedia on sentient beings triggered my comment. Isn't it fascinating that we still have no clue what gravity is? It made me wonder whether perhaps we are not meant to discover those few secrets I mentioned by science and maybe religion is the best way to approach them?

The Santiago Enigma - over 14.000 views - no consensus - PILGRIMSPLAZA

Re: Pagan takeover...? by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 6th, 2013, 12:39 am

dougfitz wrote:... they were naturally drawn...

Ah, that touches my favourite question: Are we being pushed or drawn to the end of the world? In miscellaneous-topics/topic3554.html#p20259 . Pushed from the inside or drawn from the outside?
Regards,
Geerτ

The Santiago Enigma - over 14.000 views - no consensus - PILGRIMSPLAZA

Re: Pagan takeover...? by tony1951 on July 6th, 2013, 1:29 pm

David wrote:

PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:

tony1951 wrote:The 'orthodoxies' of science are methodological and do not apply to the findings or laws.

Right [I suppose ]..., but so what about gravity and pilgrims?

Some pilgrims don't understand the gravity of their situation

I entered into this discussion not wishing to denigrate the views of other people, and I have no done so. I certainly had no intention of issuing smart aleck put downs of people who see the world in a very different way to me. I've never actually met a pilgrim on the path who would do that, even though, I have walked for many hours conversing with people who were devout and firm in their religious views. We were able to talk without any of us implying the other was deluded, or damned.

It is a pity that enthusiasm for your own view of the world led you to make that remark. I am tempted to respond in kind, but will instead withdraw. I do so not because I am smarting, I'm quite irritated at the arrogance that lies behind the pun and the wink, but I realise there is nothing to be gained in further exploration of any matter with the person who made it.

From now on I will use the forum for gaining or giving factual information.

Buen Camino

Re: Pagan takeover...? by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 6th, 2013, 3:58 pm

tony1951 wrote:

From now on I will use the forum for gaining or giving factual information.

Hi Tony,
Apparently I have hurt your feelings. I am sorry about that; that was not my intention!

I could not follow your way of reasoning, but perhaps I should have expressed that in a more delicate way. I didn't mean to be disrespectful and I've never made fun of fellow pilgrims here.

However, apart from the smilies, I am very serious about the subject and I hope to find more pilgrims who think along those unusual lines. I already have a hunch where it might lead us to.

I hope these explorations will sooner or later give us more insight, since the experts on gravity recently have given us no hope for much progress in the near future.

It is obvious that we both are playing in different leagues, but I do hope that one day we perhaps could meet again and continue our debate along your factual approach and hopefully other way(s).

At the moment we have two exhibitions on Islamic art in Holland:
– in The Hague Escher & Schatten uit de Islam – Escher & Treasures from the Islam -http://www.escherinhetpaleis.nl/2013/07 ... -de-islam/ - and
- in Amsterdam Escher Meets Islamic Art – http://www.museumtijdschrift.nl/tentoon ... raficus-2/

Also see: miscellaneous-topics/topic19101.html#p143097 - It is a type of pattern seen in the tiled Islamic mosaics at the Alhambra Palace in Spain and the Darb-i Imamshrine in Iran, but which had never been thought could exist in nature.

Who knows?
Best,
Geerτ

The Santiago Enigma - over 14.000 views - no consensus

Re: Pagan takeover...?

by dougfitz on July 7th, 2013, 9:03 am

PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:

dougfitz wrote:... they were naturally drawn...

Ah, that touches my favourite question: Are we being pushed or drawn to the end of the world? in miscellaneous-topics/topic3554.html#p20259 . Pushed from the inside or drawn from the outside?

This is shamefully selective quoting, and clearly unethical in any reasonable conversation. It implies I think that there is some natural force at work in the way peoples migrate to new places. Geert might, and find this fascinating. I don't. There is a simpler and more compelling explanation, and that was the point that I was making. That would have been clear if Geert had included the critical 'not' before the text he used.

My point was that 'going west' does not need to be explained by some natural or super-natural force, when it can be explained completely as a result of a process of elimination. That is, going west

dougfitz wrote:was the only place left to go, not where they were naturally drawn. (emphasis added)

DougF

http://www.travelblog.org/Bloggers/dougfitz/Trips/19277

deleted 7-7-13 by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 6th, 2013, 3:58 pm

misunderstanding cleared by PM

Last edited by PILGRIMSPLAZA on July 7th, 2013, 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Santiago Enigma - over 14.000 views - no consensus - PILGRIMSPLAZA

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Sunday, September 21, 2008